We definitely need better people! Kelton, this is a brilliant and necessary post, despite the shitty topic. I love the way you worked through various iterations of a sign to try to distill the message down to one that might connect with its intended audience. If only, right? While the issue in my town is more that our trails and roadsides are lined with bagged (or unbagged) dog poo, rather than with human waste, the public message has been loud and clear that no poop fairy exists to magically disappear that waste, and yet . . . this issue continues. I think it would help if we could convince those people to carry something like a chalk bag along with their disposable waste bags, so they have an easy-to-carry dedicated pouch - whether a cross-body bag, waist pack, or one that clips to a belt loop (and leak-proof, preferably) - in order to conveniently carry waste out, as it seems that very few people are willing to hand-carry a filled waste bag for any distance. This would be a simple solution, but still requires convincing folks to accept a level of responsibility for themselves and/or their pets, and I'm not sure the people creating this issue are willing to accept any responsibility even if you make it clear that what they're doing makes our dogs (and our planet) sick. So, here we are, right back at needing better people.
Back when I worked as a surveyor, the joke was 'why are women bad surveyors? [demonstrate 4 inch span with thumb and forefinger] 'They keep being told this is seven inches.' Timeless!
There are pet waste stations (bags + bin) at many of the trails near me; if human poop were also a problem, I'd expect to see human waste stations (bags + maybe a larger bin) there, too. It doesn't eliminate all waste from being left behind, but it eliminates the common excuses (I don't have a bag, I don't have anywhere to put it, etc.) Funding for these could be line items in the natural resources/conscomm or dpw town budgets.
But also, we are so used to pooping, flushing, then never having to think about it again (unless you have a septic) -- how do we normalize handling human shit?
I frequently spend 3-4 hours above 10,000’ with two dogs. As you know, there’s usually no way to scrape a 6” deep hole in thin alpine cover. ‘Bag and carry’ is usually the only practical option.
I feel your pain … we avoid anything close to the Leadville 100 course or the Colorado Trail.
Your signs are cool, and appropriate. But basic education is also needed. I think REI and similar retailers are big on including wag bags in their ‘leave no trace’ philosophy, but it’s necessary to also work on lobbying the OHV folks and mountain-county commissioners. If you’re starting a crusade, I’ll join 🤓.
I worked for 35 years as a recreation planner for the USFS and every one of my co workers will tell you that our jobs revolved around poop. For the chronic offenders, nothing works. I have seen WAG bags work in limited situations where there's a more educated user, but even then I saw bagged poop, or the people who refused to carry them out. We would tell people the number of human steps in 200 feet and people still won't do it. Since Covid times it's gotten worse. I wish I had the answer...but I don't.
I actually like the first sign! The poop looks humorous enough that people might actually read the sign. Most people don't read signs, especially if they have more than like 5 words, and I wonder if seeing a picture of a dog and the word "poop" will make them gloss over, thinking, "It's just a sign about picking up after your dog."
I personally like the idea of simply posting "CLEAN UP YOUR OWN SH*T," but either the poop pile or the dog are probably friendlier emissaries ...
It's kind of mind-boggling this is even a problem. I wonder if the dearth of public bathrooms everywhere has now engendered a corresponding hostility in the general public. Has frustration over not being able to find anywhere to go unleashed a "f-it then, I'll just go anywhere" mentality? (Also thinking here of the bottles of urine that now get hurled from cars.)
You're so right and so practical, Kelton. What has to happen, of course, is people have to poop before they get to your town and its surroundings. I guess there's no way that a 'I Thought I Told You To Do That Before You Got In The Car' sign is going to work, in the moment, but barring some kind of medical condition, people should be embarrassed about not being able to manage themselves a little better.
Yeah, I am baffled that this a regular enough occurence to be a major problem stemming from people without major/chronic illnesses. How many people will wait because they don't want to poop at work/in a very public bathroom/at a date's house/&c. -- I think for the average adult not experiencing food poisoning or similar, waiting an hour or so until there is a proper place to go is...normal?
What a bizzare battle to be in. I can relate. I live by a small park popular with urban dog walkers. If my recycling bin is on the street for long they throw bags in there! When they break it’s a horrific clean up. It’s too deep to even reach in. 🤮
I know this story is not in the Rockies, but temps are changing the viability of ‘tropical’ contagious diseases and it’s worth informing your community.
Accumulated human poop can have DIRE consequences! It’s not just your dogs (do cats 100% avoid?) but your human community can be put at risk through cross-contamination.
One of the most spectacular (and reservation only) bucket list hikes on Kaua’i Island in Hawai’i has been shut for weeks now because of human poop infected by a hiker (probably flew in on precious vacay time and paid $$$ to get there) with norovirus. The portapotties were typically not cleaned, so it spread to many! Some hikers had to be airlifted out, as it is an 11 grueling but phenomenal miles. People were pooping in ancient caves (no rainfall to cleanse) by small rivers too. 🤢
I don’t think most people living in near access to facilities with normal health give any thought to planning ahead their elimination. It got me thinking about my usual gear and so I thank you. Tabbed ziplocks rule, a lightweight trowel. Nothing difficult there.
On the other hand, I do have an ironclad tradition of stopping at a favorite restaurant in a foothill town before heading up to Mt Rainier for a day or longer visit. Last running hot water (except the 2 crowded inns)… great food 🌮🥗 and pellet ice!
Ugh bureaucratic process! But I wonder if this is an issue the Health Department could help with? It’s not your own community doing this at all, is it? Or is it. Tourism commission?
I like the motion sensor camera idea, but it would just disperse the mess and get ShowOff Shitters anyway; the ones with the testicles on their rear plate.
Unfortunately it's National Forest Service land mostly, despite our water coming from it. Not a lot of help to get from departments or commissions. But it being near our water is also part of the problem! People!
Maybe we need better people.
Isn’t that just it
We definitely need better people! Kelton, this is a brilliant and necessary post, despite the shitty topic. I love the way you worked through various iterations of a sign to try to distill the message down to one that might connect with its intended audience. If only, right? While the issue in my town is more that our trails and roadsides are lined with bagged (or unbagged) dog poo, rather than with human waste, the public message has been loud and clear that no poop fairy exists to magically disappear that waste, and yet . . . this issue continues. I think it would help if we could convince those people to carry something like a chalk bag along with their disposable waste bags, so they have an easy-to-carry dedicated pouch - whether a cross-body bag, waist pack, or one that clips to a belt loop (and leak-proof, preferably) - in order to conveniently carry waste out, as it seems that very few people are willing to hand-carry a filled waste bag for any distance. This would be a simple solution, but still requires convincing folks to accept a level of responsibility for themselves and/or their pets, and I'm not sure the people creating this issue are willing to accept any responsibility even if you make it clear that what they're doing makes our dogs (and our planet) sick. So, here we are, right back at needing better people.
Also, here's your "AMEN!" in regard to "people out there calling 4 inches 7." That line will have me laughing the rest of today. Thanks for that!!
Back when I worked as a surveyor, the joke was 'why are women bad surveyors? [demonstrate 4 inch span with thumb and forefinger] 'They keep being told this is seven inches.' Timeless!
[self-deprecating off-color joke omitted]
Amazing.
I feel like a sign that says "don't shit here" with a puking dog could also work.
Love it.
Visceral. Powerful. Gross.
There are pet waste stations (bags + bin) at many of the trails near me; if human poop were also a problem, I'd expect to see human waste stations (bags + maybe a larger bin) there, too. It doesn't eliminate all waste from being left behind, but it eliminates the common excuses (I don't have a bag, I don't have anywhere to put it, etc.) Funding for these could be line items in the natural resources/conscomm or dpw town budgets.
But also, we are so used to pooping, flushing, then never having to think about it again (unless you have a septic) -- how do we normalize handling human shit?
Totally. Even if we offer the bags, we might end up at best with bagged shit.
Sorry for the time lag.
I frequently spend 3-4 hours above 10,000’ with two dogs. As you know, there’s usually no way to scrape a 6” deep hole in thin alpine cover. ‘Bag and carry’ is usually the only practical option.
I feel your pain … we avoid anything close to the Leadville 100 course or the Colorado Trail.
Your signs are cool, and appropriate. But basic education is also needed. I think REI and similar retailers are big on including wag bags in their ‘leave no trace’ philosophy, but it’s necessary to also work on lobbying the OHV folks and mountain-county commissioners. If you’re starting a crusade, I’ll join 🤓.
Once I get through potty training a baby, I’ll move up to the big leagues 😂
I worked for 35 years as a recreation planner for the USFS and every one of my co workers will tell you that our jobs revolved around poop. For the chronic offenders, nothing works. I have seen WAG bags work in limited situations where there's a more educated user, but even then I saw bagged poop, or the people who refused to carry them out. We would tell people the number of human steps in 200 feet and people still won't do it. Since Covid times it's gotten worse. I wish I had the answer...but I don't.
You and me both. Humans can be a real bad lot.
I actually like the first sign! The poop looks humorous enough that people might actually read the sign. Most people don't read signs, especially if they have more than like 5 words, and I wonder if seeing a picture of a dog and the word "poop" will make them gloss over, thinking, "It's just a sign about picking up after your dog."
I personally like the idea of simply posting "CLEAN UP YOUR OWN SH*T," but either the poop pile or the dog are probably friendlier emissaries ...
It's kind of mind-boggling this is even a problem. I wonder if the dearth of public bathrooms everywhere has now engendered a corresponding hostility in the general public. Has frustration over not being able to find anywhere to go unleashed a "f-it then, I'll just go anywhere" mentality? (Also thinking here of the bottles of urine that now get hurled from cars.)
You're so right and so practical, Kelton. What has to happen, of course, is people have to poop before they get to your town and its surroundings. I guess there's no way that a 'I Thought I Told You To Do That Before You Got In The Car' sign is going to work, in the moment, but barring some kind of medical condition, people should be embarrassed about not being able to manage themselves a little better.
Yeah, I am baffled that this a regular enough occurence to be a major problem stemming from people without major/chronic illnesses. How many people will wait because they don't want to poop at work/in a very public bathroom/at a date's house/&c. -- I think for the average adult not experiencing food poisoning or similar, waiting an hour or so until there is a proper place to go is...normal?
What a bizzare battle to be in. I can relate. I live by a small park popular with urban dog walkers. If my recycling bin is on the street for long they throw bags in there! When they break it’s a horrific clean up. It’s too deep to even reach in. 🤮
I know this story is not in the Rockies, but temps are changing the viability of ‘tropical’ contagious diseases and it’s worth informing your community.
Accumulated human poop can have DIRE consequences! It’s not just your dogs (do cats 100% avoid?) but your human community can be put at risk through cross-contamination.
One of the most spectacular (and reservation only) bucket list hikes on Kaua’i Island in Hawai’i has been shut for weeks now because of human poop infected by a hiker (probably flew in on precious vacay time and paid $$$ to get there) with norovirus. The portapotties were typically not cleaned, so it spread to many! Some hikers had to be airlifted out, as it is an 11 grueling but phenomenal miles. People were pooping in ancient caves (no rainfall to cleanse) by small rivers too. 🤢
https://www.civilbeat.org/2024/10/hawaiis-popular-kalalau-trail-reopens-after-norovirus-outbreak/?
I don’t think most people living in near access to facilities with normal health give any thought to planning ahead their elimination. It got me thinking about my usual gear and so I thank you. Tabbed ziplocks rule, a lightweight trowel. Nothing difficult there.
On the other hand, I do have an ironclad tradition of stopping at a favorite restaurant in a foothill town before heading up to Mt Rainier for a day or longer visit. Last running hot water (except the 2 crowded inns)… great food 🌮🥗 and pellet ice!
Ugh bureaucratic process! But I wonder if this is an issue the Health Department could help with? It’s not your own community doing this at all, is it? Or is it. Tourism commission?
I like the motion sensor camera idea, but it would just disperse the mess and get ShowOff Shitters anyway; the ones with the testicles on their rear plate.
Unfortunately it's National Forest Service land mostly, despite our water coming from it. Not a lot of help to get from departments or commissions. But it being near our water is also part of the problem! People!
Just a thought. Knowing that there might be bears around would make me think twice about getting caught with my pants down…
You would think!
A sign saying "camera surveillance" might not be educational, but possibly effective.
Poopers will be prosecuted.